29
Jul
10

In Which I Rehash A Comment From An Older Post

It seems that both Anson and Calvinist have trouble differentiating between “chivalry” and “manners.”Here’s the difference:

Good manners are, well, good manners. Holding the door for someone, returning their wallet, escorting a fink’s children from the room before you take a mallet to the fink’s kneecaps. Being considerate and helpful because it’s right.

Chivalry is adopting the pretense of good manners to put women in an awkward position. That’s the shortest definition I could come up with. You can go in more detail, and read in-depth examples, here.

Through day to day life, it may not matter much whether someone is being chivalrous or polite, as long as the good deed gets done. But since chivalry isn’t rooted in good intentions, that’s not always the case.

Example: I had always been raised to believe that holding doors open was the polite thing to do, regardless of the sex of the participates. If I arrive at the door first, I’m going to hold it open for you. Most people gladly accept that act of politeness, including the vast majority of boys and men. But believe it or not, some guys raise a stink when I do this.

The most memorable incident was in college. I was walking to the cafeteria, there was a guy (a stranger) some distance behind me walking the same direction. So I held the door open, like I always did. Dude got to the door and assumed a face like a deer in headlights. Actually, it was more like a deer in headlights who was also indignant at the sheer audacity of those headlights, beaming on him like they were something. But there was delicious chicken parmesan waiting beyond the passage, so he went on through.

Not before glaring at me and muttering “bitch” under his breath, though.

He isn’t the only one. Usually the guy just glares. One time I was reaching a door, a guy broke into a run in a desperate attempt to get there before I did, and assumed a dirty look when I obliviously stole his thunder.

He was just a Nice Guy(tm)! Why did I have to be such a bitch, holding a door for him? Lucky me, he was such a Nice Guy(tm) that he merely glared at me instead of audibly saying what he was thinking!

These “gentlemen”, of course, aren’t. They only adopt the polite act to inflate their sense of self-worth. When thwarted by the target, even if it was unintentional (keep in mind, the vast majority of men are not bothered by my door-holding), their true colors show.

A chivalrous guy gets butthurt when confronted with a door-holding woman. A polite guy says “thank you” and walks on through. That’s the difference.

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24 Responses to “In Which I Rehash A Comment From An Older Post”


  1. 1 Calvinist of the Ozarks
    August 2, 2010 at 3:53 am

    If you held the door open for my son and he walked through it I would chew his behind out.

    If you held the door open for my son and he put his hand on the door to hold it open and said “ladies first” I would be proud of my son.

    If you held the door open for my son and he put his hand on the door to hold it open and said “ladies first” but you held onto the door and said “no, you first”, I have now idea what I would want him to do or what he should do. I guess he should go through the door and say “if it makes the lady happy”.

    Why do you have to go against what has been the standard mode of polite behavior for centuries?

    Men are 50 percent stronger physically than women. Why can’t you just let them open the door for you? If it makes them happy to be kind to you why can’t you let them be happy? Why can’t you enjoy the kindness?

    • 2 Rawhead
      August 2, 2010 at 1:54 pm

      What if a gay man held the door for your son, what should he do then?

      • August 2, 2010 at 4:04 pm

        The appropriate Christian response would be for him to go on through, and then smugly console himself that that guy’s going to be tortured forever by a loving god.

      • 4 Calvinist of the Ozarks
        August 3, 2010 at 2:05 am

        That is an interesting question.

      • 5 Calvinist of the Ozarks
        August 3, 2010 at 2:11 am

        I would say that if a gay guy held the door open for my son he should let the gay guy hold the door open for him. Because evidently the gay guy wants to and he enjoys doing this. Why steal his happiness?

      • August 3, 2010 at 3:57 am

        I got one! What if a transman got to the door first? A transwoman? Intersexed? Genderqueer? Drag king/queen? Pat?
        Your son could very well accept an act of courtesy from a vagina bearer! Le gasp!

        What a tangled, perplexing conundrum! If only there was a simpler method of determing who should hold the door open, like, I don’t know…”whomever capable of doorholding gets there first, should hold the door.”

        Nah, that’s crazytalk. Maybe you should equip your son with a portable version of those new airport nudie scanners. Surely the iPhone has an app for that…

      • August 3, 2010 at 4:11 am

        So if instead I get to the door first and hold it open, why does your son have stop and rectify that? The hypothetical
        gay guy and I can both hold the door equally well. What’s the big deal?

        Today I held the door open for a old lady (travel plaza) and a middle aged dude (bamboo house) today. Both went on through and said thanks. The dude even said “Well bless ya!”

        What part in those scenarios was harmful and rude? I don’t feel sleighted or tarnished, should I be?

      • 8 Calvinist of the Ozarks
        August 3, 2010 at 2:18 am

        Christians are never comforted by the thought that anyone might end up in hell. A Christian would mourn instead.

        And yes, God is loving. Everyone has a chance to repent of their sins. We are all forever in this life slaves to our sinful desires, whatever those sinful desires may be. (I have too many sinful desires to list)

        But because God is loving there is hope for a filthy sinner like me.

    • August 2, 2010 at 4:01 pm

      “Why do you have to go against what has been the standard mode of polite behavior for centuries?”

      Why do you have to go against the current standard mode of polite behavior?

      “Men are 50 percent stronger physically than women.”

      And if every door was 20 feet tall and made out of concrete, that would mean something. How do you plan on leaving the house when your son leaves? You’re obviously too delicate and frail to open a goddamn door.

      “Why can’t you just let them open the door for you? If it makes them happy to be kind to you why can’t you let them be happy? Why can’t you enjoy the kindness?”

      Why do they get so butthurt if I reach the door first? I don’t act like an ass if a dude reaches the door first and holds it. No one cares about the genitals of the doorholder, except for these select few entitled assholes.

  2. August 3, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    To all of you,

    I raised a simple point. Do our current laws go far enough to allow for equality of opportunity for women (and other groups) or instead do “feminists” feel the need for more legal or moral dictates? I don’t think I got an answer, that I could find.

    Instead we have a blog and some now 12 comments about holding doors open. And Kaje even diverged into AA concepts which as far as I know have nothing to do with “manners”, “chivalry” or dicrimination.

    From a Christian perspective, I suspect that Christ would not support discrimination. So the answer for any Christian would seem to be “don’t discriminate” or teach your children to do so.

    From a feminist point of view I have no idea what the answer might be.

    And for darn sure I see no correlation between trying to overcome a dibelitating disease and discrimination.

    Anson

    • August 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm

      And Kaje even diverged into AA concepts which as far as I know have nothing to do with “manners”, “chivalry” or dicrimination.

      Exsqueeze me? Baking powder? You were the one who brought up AA in that thread, not me. In hindsight I probably shouldn’t have let you derail the thread. Most of your questions can be answered at finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/

      Now that that’s out of the way, let us resume Doorgate.

  3. 14 Calvinist of the Ozarks
    August 3, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Kage, younger people should hold the door open for the elderly. That was the proper thing to do.

    It is SO DISRESPECTFUL for a man to not hold the door open for a woman.

    It is simply a show of a respect. Is it a bad thing for men to show respect to women?

    Men can respect women for their mental abilities, contributions to society, etc. AND they can hold the door open for them.

    Would you rather men knocked you out of the way to go through the door first?

    • 15 Rawhead
      August 3, 2010 at 6:17 pm

      I think I know how to do this now. Next time I find myself in a position where I could hold a door for a woman, or someone who appears to be a woman (you know how hard it is to tell these days), I must stop her and have a short conversation with her to determine whether she is deserving of my respect or not. Only then can I make the proper decision regarding door-holding etiquette. Wait, should I do a pelvic exam too just to be sure? God I hope it’s Rita Crowell.

    • August 3, 2010 at 7:07 pm

      I’M NOT SAYING MEN CAN’T OPEN THE DOOR FOR WOMEN.

      nataliedee.com
      nataliedee.com

      I’ve temporarily taken you off the approved commentator list until you can demonstrate basic reading comprehension. Print out this multiple choice question, answer it, and bring it to my house Wednesday.

      IN KAJE’S POST, WHAT IS HER BELIEF RE: DOOR HOLDING?

      A) Women should hold the door for men, because *Xena battle cry*.
      B) The sex of the doorholder is irrelevant. Whoever gets there first should hold it open for the other.
      C) Guys who hold open doors should be maced and falcon punched.
      D) Men should always hold the door open for women because JESUS

      I drew a Mohammad cartoon and the Globe removed it to prevent controversy. Perhaps they should have anticipated DoorGate instead.

    • 20 Child-Killing Witchcraft-Practicing Lesbian Atheist
      August 9, 2010 at 3:23 pm

      >”Men can respect women for their mental abilities, contributions to society, etc. AND they can hold the door open for them.”

      Or instead of these childish, silly arguments about how “men are 50% stronger than women,” whoever gets to the door first can hold the door for the person behind them, as is now customary. We can show courtesy and respect to one another, instead of clinging to foolish archaic ideals about “the weaker sex.”

  4. 22 Calvinist of the Ozarks
    August 4, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    Pftttttttt!


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